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Internships for Graduate Students and Postdocs: Using Internships to Explore Careers and Make Career Decisions

Part 1: Internships for Graduate Students and Postdocs: Confident Career Decision-Making Through Internships

00:00:07.05 Hello.
00:00:08.05 My name is Alexandra Schnoes, and I'm the Associate Director of Career and Professional Development
00:00:11.27 at iBiology.
00:00:13.01 And today, in a series of two talks, I'm going to talk to you about internships for
00:00:18.04 life science grad students and postdocs.
00:00:20.06 In the first talk, I'm going to talk to you about why it is that you might want to
00:00:24.19 go on an internship and what internships can look like.
00:00:28.08 And then in the second talk, I'm going to talk about the process of finding an internship
00:00:31.26 and then going on an internship.
00:00:34.17 So, the reason that I am the one talking to you about internships is that in 2009
00:00:39.28 I helped found an internship program at UCSF.
00:00:43.13 So, the Graduate Student Internships for Career Exploration program, or GSICE, was founded
00:00:49.20 to be able to allow UCSF's basic and biomedical science graduate students to go on internships
00:00:56.14 outside of academia, so go do an industry internship, or go do something in marketing,
00:01:04.20 or any number of career areas that are open to life science PhDs.
00:01:11.06 I was the founding program manager.
00:01:12.20 And at the time that we started the program, it actually was the first program out there
00:01:18.03 that actually supported grad students into going into all of the career areas open to
00:01:23.08 life scientists, not just industry positions.
00:01:27.17 While I was running the program, we were able to recruit funding that allowed us to replicate
00:01:32.21 the program at another site, in this case, University of California, Davis.
00:01:37.26 And so, we were actually able to do research on the outcomes of our programs on our students
00:01:43.14 and publish those data, which I'll get into in a little bit.
00:01:47.17 Now, fortunately, there are many internship programs throughout the US.
00:01:51.24 Hopefully, you might actually be at a campus or a university that has one.
00:01:56.16 But even if you don't, hopefully this series of talks will help you figure out if you
00:02:02.01 want to do an internship, and then how to do it if you want to do it.
00:02:06.12 So, I just want to take a moment to acknowledge all of the people who helped make
00:02:12.17 the UCSF internship program possible, and the partner program possible.
00:02:17.07 This is definitely not something that one person can do alone.
00:02:21.01 It is a team.
00:02:22.01 So, I just want to say thank you, and acknowledge the hard work of
00:02:26.22 the UCSF Office of Career and Professional Development and the Graduate Division;
00:02:31.08 the UCSF School of Medicine and the Chancellor's Office;
00:02:33.26 our collaborators at UC Davis;
00:02:36.09 the external evaluation team at Northwestern University;
00:02:39.17 and in particular, two senior faculty members at UCSF, Keith Yamamoto and Bruce Alberts,
00:02:45.20 who were real program champions and were really the force
00:02:48.03 behind getting these... this program started at UCSF.
00:02:53.00 So, as you hopefully already know, there are many science career pathways that exist
00:02:58.27 for you as a life science PhD.
00:03:01.16 You're probably very familiar with being a Principal Investigator in academia,
00:03:06.09 but it turns out that there are a number of other things you can do, and this is just
00:03:11.00 a little bit of a list that you can see.
00:03:13.20 There are many more exciting careers that you can go into.
00:03:17.03 But you might already be wondering, how do you know what you want to do for a career?
00:03:21.26 And how on earth do you get there?
00:03:23.18 So, my advice to you is to get experience.
00:03:27.26 And do it from the very beginning.
00:03:31.03 When you're just exploring a range of career options, what this possibly means is going
00:03:35.22 to a lot of workshops on your campus or at conferences; doing a lot of reading,
00:03:42.10 say on Science Careers or Naturejobs, or there are a number of books out now on life science careers.
00:03:49.24 As you're starting to narrow down your interests, you might get yourself involved in things
00:03:55.11 that take a little more time and effort.
00:03:57.09 So, possibly you start networking.
00:04:00.01 Maybe you do a job shadow or a job simulation.
00:04:03.03 For example, there are the InterSECT job simulations, which are built specifically for life science PhD's
00:04:09.12 to try out little projects in other life science careers.
00:04:16.24 And then there are the internships, which are typically something you're gonna do
00:04:21.14 when you're really interested in a career, and wanna get your hands dirty, and really
00:04:26.02 try something out.
00:04:27.07 But you might be wondering, why on earth would I actually do this?
00:04:33.08 I have so much to do in the lab.
00:04:35.02 My PI needs things to get done.
00:04:37.12 I'm trying to get papers out.
00:04:39.06 Doing an internship, even a part-time internship, just even getting an internship,
00:04:44.06 takes a lot of time and effort, and then I'm supposed to take time away from the lab
00:04:47.08 and do a full-time internship?
00:04:48.26 I'm... how is that gonna work, and why... why would I really do that?
00:04:53.08 Well, it turns out that there... internships are incredibly helpful in helping you clarify
00:05:01.14 your career interests.
00:05:02.26 So, when we looked at the students at UCSF and UC Davis before and after they did internships,
00:05:10.13 before the internship only about 20% of the students actually felt confident about
00:05:16.18 their career choice.
00:05:18.05 The majority of them were still considering a wide range of options.
00:05:23.11 After the internship, there is a marked difference.
00:05:26.02 So, almost 60% of the students actually now felt confident in their career choice.
00:05:33.00 And only a small number, about 15%, still were considering a range of options.
00:05:37.20 And when we talked to students who did internships, even the ones who did internships that maybe
00:05:42.20 they didn't like or didn't help them choose that career as the one they wanted to do,
00:05:49.04 they found the internships incredibly valuable, because it helped them learn about a career
00:05:53.15 and maybe decide that that wasn't for them.
00:05:56.11 So, no matter the outcomes, all of our students recommend doing internships after having done them.
00:06:03.12 So, another reason that you might want to do an internship is, quite bluntly,
00:06:07.13 it helps you get a job.
00:06:09.13 It improves your resume.
00:06:10.21 But more importantly, it makes you more competitive, because it shows that you have interest and skills,
00:06:17.03 and that you understand the culture and the work of the career you're trying
00:06:21.26 to go into.
00:06:23.04 And by doing that, the employer is a lot more willing to take a risk on you and hire you,
00:06:29.20 because they... they see that you know what you're gonna be getting yourself into.
00:06:34.18 So, for example, one of the students -- these are quotes from real students that we talked
00:06:40.13 to after their internships -- said that doing the internship really was great for them
00:06:47.00 on their resume, and was a key factor in them being able to find a full-time job.
00:06:52.17 And the second student just, quite frankly, said, I don't think I would have gotten
00:06:57.07 this job without the internship.
00:06:59.20 So, doing an internship is incredibly helpful for you as you're trying to move into
00:07:06.05 your next career step.
00:07:08.02 So, you might be wondering, well, what do career... what do internships look like
00:07:14.14 in different careers?
00:07:16.02 So, the first thing to know is that, often, when people use the word internship, they're...
00:07:21.28 they're sort of automatically implying the... the kind of situation where you leave
00:07:27.26 the lab for a certain amount of time, say three months, and then you come back, and it's full-time,
00:07:36.23 and it takes up a lot of your time.
00:07:39.22 And that might be true for you.
00:07:41.19 But it turns out, when we looked at our students, both full-time and part-time internships
00:07:47.27 were incredibly beneficial for them.
00:07:50.00 So, an internship for you might be full-time, it might be part-time, it could be just
00:07:56.09 a project that you're working on that's very time-limited, it could be a formal experience
00:08:02.23 in a biotech company, maybe it's an informal situation with a friend who's starting a startup,
00:08:12.11 maybe it's going to be called a co-op, or maybe it's called an externship.
00:08:17.14 The point is, what you're really looking for is experiential learning.
00:08:22.04 You're looking for that opportunity to get hands-on training and experience.
00:08:27.25 So, whatever an internship is for you, that's what it is at the core.
00:08:33.07 So, don't worry that it has to be full-time or part-time.
00:08:36.08 All of these things are incredibly beneficial.
00:08:38.17 It's really what works for you and your situation.
00:08:41.18 So, there are a lot of different sectors, actually, that offer internships.
00:08:46.19 In fact, as... as far as we could tell, if it's a sector that wants to hire life science PhD's,
00:08:52.06 there's probably internships that you can find in it.
00:08:56.06 As you see here, we... we cover a number of different sectors.
00:09:00.05 These are internships at UCSF from 2010 to 2015.
00:09:04.21 We had students who went to big biotech companies, small startups, nonprofits, law firms.
00:09:13.05 Really, what I want you to take home is that, at the end of the day, if you're interested
00:09:19.09 in that career, and that career typically hires life science PhDs,
00:09:24.01 there's probably an opportunity for you.
00:09:26.22 So, this is just a little bit of a list of places that students at UCSF and UC Davis went to.
00:09:35.17 What I want to just highlight is that, yes, there are definitely some famous names on there
00:09:40.16 like Genentech or Google, but there's also probably names that you have never seen before.
00:09:46.20 And really, our students found meaningful op... meaningful options in all sorts of different
00:09:56.19 environments and companies and company sizes.
00:10:00.13 So, don't think that only the worthwhile experience is gonna be at Amgen.
00:10:05.24 There's really a lot of options out there for you.
00:10:08.28 So, there are a couple of trends when it comes to internships.
00:10:13.06 It is true that if you're doing a full-time internship it is likely to be about
00:10:18.13 three months in length.
00:10:20.10 It can be longer.
00:10:21.14 That's... that's not as common.
00:10:23.16 Often, if they're longer, it's because you're doing them right after you've graduated.
00:10:28.23 You know, it's hard to take off more than three months from... from your lab work,
00:10:34.03 so that's pretty standard.
00:10:36.09 Part-time internships are typically for a longer period of time.
00:10:39.22 So, you know, that's just a reflection of the fact that you're typically going to be
00:10:44.03 working 10 hours of... 10 hours of work a week or less.
00:10:48.28 And so it just takes longer for both you and the employer to get more out of that, so it's...
00:10:54.07 it's typically six months or a year long, something of that length.
00:10:59.00 You should definitely be paid if you're doing a full-time internship.
00:11:03.20 This is standard for life science PhD's.
00:11:07.19 To be honest, this is actually not a problem we ever had when... when I was running
00:11:12.02 the internship program.
00:11:13.19 But I want you to know that it is not normal for you not to get paid.
00:11:18.13 You should be getting paid if it's a full-time internship.
00:11:21.22 It is true that for part-time internships they are often unpaid.
00:11:26.16 But this is in the situation where you're doing about ten hours of work a week or less,
00:11:32.16 so it's... it's often sort of considered an extracurricular that you're not supposed to
00:11:36.15 be taking time away from the lab.
00:11:37.26 It may not be really fair, but... but that is unfortunately the standard.
00:11:43.24 Also, it is true that a lot of internships happen in the summer.
00:11:48.23 This is likely just a holdover from the fact that internship sites are familiar with doing
00:11:56.07 undergrad internships, and typically the only time they can do an internship is in the summer.
00:12:02.13 So, you will see a lot of postings for summer.
00:12:05.22 Definitely, I think most of our grad students have gone in the summer.
00:12:10.01 It's... it's just a standard time.
00:12:12.17 But, if you're a grad student or postdoc, remember that, you know, you're likely
00:12:17.02 not taking classes anymore, so you in theory could go anytime.
00:12:19.21 And we certainly had grad students go anytime during the year.
00:12:23.15 So, don't be afraid to look for opportunities that happen at other times in the year,
00:12:29.25 or don't be afraid to ask a site that takes grad students in the summer if maybe they can
00:12:34.25 take you at a different time in the year.
00:12:37.18 So, it is also common that internships actually don't happen while you're in training
00:12:43.19 but right after you're in training.
00:12:46.02 So, we had about 20% of our students that actually did their internships post-graduation.
00:12:50.26 And the reasons for this are many, of course, like their projects just weren't ever going
00:12:55.27 to allow them to leave for 3 months, maybe their PI wasn't thrilled about the idea.
00:13:00.27 But these are things that can actually happen, so... so be on the lookout for those opportunities.
00:13:08.08 It is true that it is not common for you to get benefits on an internship,
00:13:13.28 so you will not be getting health insurance, you will not be getting retirement.
00:13:17.09 You're gonna... you're gonna be a temporary worker.
00:13:20.17 That's... that's just the standard.
00:13:24.12 And to be clear, an internship does not guarantee employment at the company that you're interning at.
00:13:32.07 There are definitely cases that we've had where a student will get a full-time offer
00:13:35.20 after doing an internship, but not every internship site is actually looking to hire full-time.
00:13:41.11 They might just be really interested in having interns.
00:13:44.17 So, don't go into an internship with that expectation.
00:13:48.05 If it happens, congratulations.
00:13:51.04 But that isn't normally the norm.
00:13:53.27 Okay.
00:13:55.02 So, hopefully I've convinced you a little bit that internships can be really useful to you,
00:14:02.27 and that you're gonna find, probably, an opportunity for you that you might be
00:14:08.13 very interested in.
00:14:09.22 So, now is the next step of really exploring your options, which we'll talk about in
00:14:14.11 the next talk, where I discuss how to find and then go on an internship.
00:14:19.02 Thank you.

Part 2: Internships for Graduate Students and Postdocs: Finding and Going on an Internship

00:00:07.18 Hello.
00:00:08.20 My name is Alexandra Schnoes.
00:00:10.03 I'm the Associate Director of Career and Professional Development at iBiology.
00:00:13.27 And this is the second talk in a series of talks that I'm giving about internships
00:00:19.03 for life science grad students and postdocs.
00:00:21.28 In this talk, I'm going to talk about how to find and then go on an internship.
00:00:26.13 So, first, before you start looking at a bunch of job listings for internships,
00:00:34.14 I want you to actually take a step back.
00:00:36.02 And I want you to think about what you actually want to get out of your internship.
00:00:41.18 So, your goal is really to try out the work that you're interested in.
00:00:46.18 So, every option that you're looking at should really allow you to do that work.
00:00:53.15 And so, if it doesn't allow you to actually get your hands dirty and try something out,
00:00:58.08 it's probably not the right opportunity for you.
00:01:01.16 It also needs to be appropriate for your level.
00:01:05.10 You are more advanced than you were as an undergraduate.
00:01:09.09 You are at a doctoral level or even more advanced; maybe you're a postdoc.
00:01:13.09 So, the work that you are asked to do at an internship site should reflect that.
00:01:18.00 Otherwise, you are not going to get the full experience of what it would actually
00:01:21.22 be like to do that career if you were hired on as a... as a full-time employee.
00:01:26.06 I've mentioned this before in the previous video, but you absolutely must be compensated
00:01:32.13 if you're doing a full-time internship.
00:01:34.22 It is standard in the life science field.
00:01:37.08 It is just only appropriate given your level of education and training.
00:01:42.10 You should be paid.
00:01:44.00 Also, quite frankly, for all internships, free work is likely, potentially, illegal.
00:01:51.13 So, you don't wanna get into that situation.
00:01:54.06 You should get paid.
00:01:55.11 Now, I should mention, it's not actually typical that I think you'll run into employers
00:02:00.20 who don't want to pay you.
00:02:01.27 That's... that's not standard, at least it wasn't when I was running the internship program.
00:02:06.08 But just so that you know, if you run into a crazy employer that tries to get you
00:02:10.04 to do work for free, don't do it as a full-time intern.
00:02:14.23 You also want to make sure that if you're looking into an internship opportunity that it...
00:02:20.08 it seems like they're clear about what they're actually gonna have you do, that there are...
00:02:24.26 there's a project or goals that you're actually gonna be working for.
00:02:29.02 There's nothing worse than spending three months of your precious time really not actually
00:02:34.15 doing anything, and with them not really knowing how to use you.
00:02:38.07 That's not a great internship opportunity.
00:02:40.24 You want to avoid that at all costs.
00:02:42.19 Because at the end of the day, an internship is supposed to give you skills, training,
00:02:47.22 experience, and professional development for yourself.
00:02:50.18 So make sure that when you're looking at opportunities that's what you see when you look at it.
00:02:58.04 So, I want to set you up for success.
00:03:00.26 And what that means is utilizing all of the resources that you have already available
00:03:06.06 on your campus.
00:03:07.10 So, definitely take a trip by your career center.
00:03:11.28 Even if it only seems like they serve undergrads, they might actually serve grad students
00:03:16.28 and postdocs too.
00:03:18.10 Just make sure.
00:03:19.10 See what... what they provide for all of their trainees on campus.
00:03:23.05 There are also other offices on campus that might be helpful for you.
00:03:27.08 So, some campuses actually have a separate undergraduate internship center.
00:03:31.20 That could be a great place to find out about internship opportunities.
00:03:35.28 Maybe also the career center of your alma mater, where you did your undergraduate,
00:03:40.24 or maybe your grad school if you're a postdoc.
00:03:44.00 If you're a postdoc, definitely stop by the postdoc office.
00:03:47.06 Or the Graduate Division in the office of the Graduate Dean, if you're a postdoc or
00:03:51.02 grad student.
00:03:52.09 All of these offices are there to help students and trainees like you, so make sure
00:03:57.13 you're using all of the opportunities that your campus provides.
00:04:03.02 It is true that most internship opportunities are found online.
00:04:08.16 So, make sure you're not missing any.
00:04:12.02 So, your career center might have internship opportunities posted;
00:04:16.26 maybe the entrepreneurship center, or whatever the center is called on your campus
00:04:20.19 that interacts with the startup scene around your campus;
00:04:25.15 your alma mater's career center;
00:04:28.05 and then of course all of... there's a long list of...
00:04:31.00 Indeed, LinkedIn, and other sites that also have internship postings;
00:04:36.19 and don't forget Science Careers, Naturejobs.
00:04:39.11 And if you're interested in a very particular company, say -- you're really interested in
00:04:43.08 going to Genentech or Amgen or some company like that -- make sure you're actually checking out
00:04:48.23 their individual company job sites, their websites, because typically that's where
00:04:56.09 all of their postings are gonna be posted first.
00:04:59.00 A couple of things to know about internship postings.
00:05:04.25 For whatever reason, internships can often be posted far in advance of when the internship
00:05:10.18 is actually going to happen.
00:05:11.26 So, for example, if you want to do a consulting internship, those deadlines actually
00:05:17.00 typically happen in December.
00:05:18.19 So, don't find out in May that you would love to go on a McKinsey internship and that
00:05:25.04 you missed the deadlines by, like, five months.
00:05:29.21 Also, it turns out that a lot of companies actually start posting for interns
00:05:35.10 already in January.
00:05:36.20 It doesn't mean that all of their internships are posted by January, but you will start
00:05:41.14 seeing postings come out.
00:05:43.14 And a lot of internship postings are actually filled in a little bit of a first-come, first-serve basis.
00:05:50.19 So, if they get an applicant that they love, that they think is right, they're...
00:05:54.11 they're not going to wait and interview anyone else.
00:05:56.16 So, make sure you're in that line of people that they're gonna see as soon as that posting
00:06:02.16 comes out.
00:06:05.00 Just a reminder that you can do an internship anytime.
00:06:08.25 Because you're a grad student or postdoc, you're not likely in classes.
00:06:11.24 So you have a fair bit of flexibility.
00:06:15.01 So if you're interested in a company and they take interns in the summer, but it works better
00:06:18.27 for you in the winter, reach out and see if possibly there are opportunities that
00:06:24.01 you might be able to do at a different time.
00:06:27.05 And it turns out that certain institutions -- universities, campuses, or sometimes even cities --
00:06:31.25 actually have whole internship fairs.
00:06:34.26 This is a really easy way for you to get yourself in front of a number of employers in just
00:06:40.00 a few short hours, so make sure you don't miss any internship fairs in your area.
00:06:46.04 So, definitely use technology to your benefit.
00:06:52.18 Let internships come to you.
00:06:54.20 So, a number of these sites that I listed, like Indeed or LinkedIn, will allow you to
00:07:00.02 make accounts and set up automatic emails that you get based on a set of keywords
00:07:06.05 that you can set.
00:07:07.05 So, make it easy, that you're getting the emails every day based on internship criteria
00:07:12.19 that you're interested in.
00:07:14.23 A couple of other tips to know.
00:07:19.12 This one's a little bit of a bummer, but unfortunately it's true.
00:07:23.09 Some internship sites will require that you be enrolled as a student when you go on your internship,
00:07:29.07 and then come back to school after you finish the internship.
00:07:33.23 You can't have graduated or be a postdoc.
00:07:37.23 It's unfortunate.
00:07:38.23 It's just certain places.
00:07:39.24 Unfortunately, it's places like Google and some divisions of Genentech.
00:07:43.02 So, if you see a posting that says you must be an enrolled student, there's a good chance
00:07:49.20 that they are not going to be flexible on that.
00:07:54.20 Definitely spend most of your energy applying to postings and looking at postings that are
00:07:59.15 at the graduate level, so they say that they are looking at Master's or grad students or higher.
00:08:05.26 Because...
00:08:07.07 I would say a large number of employers out there really know now how to target between
00:08:12.02 undergraduate interns and grad interns.
00:08:15.14 And they... you know, they target the scope of work appropriately.
00:08:20.17 However, if you do run across the perfect sounding internship that says they're looking
00:08:27.07 for an undergrad, and it does seem like the job duties could actually be at the graduate level,
00:08:32.22 of course apply.
00:08:35.03 Sometimes companies just don't think that they might attract graduate students or forget
00:08:38.22 to put it down.
00:08:40.14 So, typically apply for things that are geared towards graduate students and say that explicitly,
00:08:45.00 but if you find the perfect opportunity, don't...
00:08:48.07 don't take yourself out of the running.
00:08:50.00 Absolutely apply.
00:08:54.03 So, one of the ways that actually a number of our students found internships is
00:08:59.09 what I'm going to call the "Create Your Own Internship".
00:09:01.13 And so this is basically internships that came out of networking and informational interviews.
00:09:06.23 If you're not familiar with informational interviews, just quickly, they're typically
00:09:11.05 a one-on-one conversation, either in person on the phone or through Skype, where you talk
00:09:18.07 to a professional in a career area that you're interested in, and you spend about 30 minutes
00:09:23.20 asking them questions about, well, what's the career like?,
00:09:28.20 what... how did you get
00:09:30.14 there?, what do... what do I do?,
00:09:33.11 how... what's the career path as you move forward?
00:09:36.28 Really trying to figure out if that career is something that you might be more interested in.
00:09:41.26 And it turns out that when you start having these conversations at networking events
00:09:46.14 or with informational interviews, you find out about opportunities that you might otherwise
00:09:51.01 not have known about.
00:09:52.20 Sometimes, even, these opportunities are created just for you.
00:09:55.24 You really click with the person you're talking with.
00:09:58.03 Maybe they have a project they've been dying to have someone work on.
00:10:01.04 And they say, oh, let me talk to my boss.
00:10:03.03 I might be able to take on an intern.
00:10:05.12 So, we found that about 20% of our students did this sort of "Create Your Own Internship".
00:10:11.09 And you might be wondering, okay, but how do I find these people to talk to?
00:10:15.25 Remember that your PI and your academic colleagues of other PI's, your... your friends in the lab,
00:10:21.01 all have connections and know people who've gone off to do really interesting things,
00:10:25.23 so make sure you're utilizing the network that's around you.
00:10:29.20 A couple of tips for informational interviews.
00:10:34.03 Just a reminder, an informational interview is not where you're asking for a position.
00:10:41.26 You're about asking for information.
00:10:44.08 If you find out about a position, that's great.
00:10:48.13 But it... it's inappropriate to ask for a position.
00:10:53.17 You can, however, at the end of every informational interview, ask these couple of questions.
00:10:58.10 So, first, do you know of any opportunities for internships, or does your company
00:11:04.23 ever do internships?
00:11:05.24 That's a great way for you to jog their memory or get them thinking about, like, oh,
00:11:11.03 you know what, internships might be available.
00:11:14.07 Also, you probably want to ask, who else might you suggest that I talk to about this career field?
00:11:21.00 This broadens your network.
00:11:22.17 You get an opportunity to talk to more people.
00:11:25.17 And by doing that, you might find out about these internship opportunities that
00:11:30.06 aren't being posted on websites.
00:11:32.04 So, definitely make sure to ask for more information when you're doing an informational interview.
00:11:40.05 I know... networking and informational interviewing does not necessarily sound super fun.
00:11:48.23 You've probably been harangued already about how you're supposed to do networking,
00:11:52.25 and how important it is.
00:11:54.16 But hopefully I've given you an example of why it is so important.
00:11:58.12 But it turns out no one's born being perfect at networking or informational interviewing.
00:12:03.09 These are skills that you can build.
00:12:05.00 So make sure that if this is something that you don't feel absolutely comfortable with,
00:12:10.26 or even a little comfortable with, that you work on your skills.
00:12:13.26 So, go to campus workshops.
00:12:16.23 Remember that at major conferences these days there are often career development workshops,
00:12:21.20 so ASCB, ACS, FASEB... all of these conferences have career development that happens there.
00:12:30.17 Also, a number of professional societies often have webinars or trainings throughout
00:12:35.17 the year.
00:12:36.17 And of course, I'm sure you probably already know, Science Careers and Naturejobs
00:12:41.08 have a wonderful array of information and suggestions for training.
00:12:46.03 So, another thing that you might want to brush up your skills on is your resume.
00:12:52.00 So, even if you're not applying for internships already, you might get asked to share a resume
00:12:59.06 if you're networking or doing informational interviews.
00:13:02.11 Resumes are just a standard thing that people ask for.
00:13:06.01 They say, hey, I would love to meet with you, but please send me your resume so I have
00:13:12.01 some idea of, like, who you are and what your background is.
00:13:14.24 So, definitely take the time to make and update your resume.
00:13:19.20 And if you're not sure how to do that, or want some extra skills around that,
00:13:24.06 definitely see if your campus has workshops.
00:13:26.04 I highly recommend these online resources from the UCSF office of Career and Professional Development.
00:13:32.19 There's definitely often resume review or CV review at conferences, such as ASCB.
00:13:40.01 And one thing I actually did as a grad student, which I really recommend, is get a bunch of
00:13:44.26 your peers together -- so, your lab mates -- and trade resumes, and give each other
00:13:48.17 advice and suggestions.
00:13:49.20 I got to see some really great ways to do a resume, and it was super helpful.
00:13:54.16 Also, if you know people who have gone off into career areas that you're interested in,
00:13:59.15 see if they might be willing to share their resume with you so you get an idea of
00:14:03.28 what a standard resume in that career field looks like.
00:14:07.23 It is really common in the life sciences to have a LinkedIn profile.
00:14:13.04 So, it is likely going to be expected that you have one.
00:14:16.17 People are gonna look you up by your name in LinkedIn to see what's there.
00:14:21.03 So, even if you're a grad student or a postdoc, make a profile or keep your profile up to date.
00:14:29.09 I would definitely suggest having a summary.
00:14:32.11 This describes sort of who you are and what you want to be known for.
00:14:36.21 Include a photo.
00:14:38.27 Definitely connect with your colleagues.
00:14:40.07 You and your colleagues are going to go off and do amazing things; make sure you're connected to them.
00:14:45.11 And if possible, try to keep it up over time in sort of little iterative steps, so that,
00:14:51.15 if you just apply to an intern... if you're just about to apply to an internship,
00:14:54.24 you don't have to spend hours updating your LinkedIn resume to be ready for these applications
00:15:00.09 in case someone googles you.
00:15:02.24 There's some more tips and tricks in this Naturejobs article that I recommend.
00:15:08.00 The link is at the bottom.
00:15:12.22 What if you don't happen to live in San Francisco, Boston, or San Diego, or one of
00:15:18.13 the small number of very biotech/pharma-heavy areas?
00:15:22.00 Well, this does not mean that you are not gonna have opportunities.
00:15:28.16 Definitely see what's available in your own backyard, say at your own university,
00:15:32.04 and I'm gonna talk a little bit more about that in the next slide.
00:15:35.11 But I also recommend making sure you know your local network, so your entrepreneurship center
00:15:41.01 or whatever the center is called near you that is connected to the startup scene.
00:15:47.09 It's a great place to see who is the startup scene in your area and how to... how to get
00:15:53.01 connected to them.
00:15:54.21 Definitely utilize your alumni network.
00:15:57.04 So, alumni from your own institution, where you are right now.
00:16:01.09 Maybe alumni from where you were an undergrad or maybe you were a grad student,
00:16:05.08 because now you're a postdoc.
00:16:07.19 So, make sure you're connecting with people in the careers that you're interested in
00:16:12.17 from all of your alumni networks.
00:16:15.13 One thing to consider is that what might work for you is a part-time internship or a remote internship,
00:16:21.27 so you're actually doing work while not on site at the internship site.
00:16:28.10 These opportunities exist, and actually are often posted online.
00:16:33.03 Another thing you might want to consider, if your life situation allows...
00:16:38.08 consider traveling to another site.
00:16:41.04 So, consider going to Boston for three months and doing a full-time internship.
00:16:46.16 So, when I said, "understand the opportunities in your own backyard", what I meant is that
00:16:53.17 every university, every institution, tends to have a wide variety of units and groups
00:16:59.16 that do a large number of different functions.
00:17:02.03 In fact, most of these functions you never actually even see.
00:17:06.26 But since they're at a university or a training institution, it's very likely that these groups
00:17:12.16 of people are overworked, underresourced, and would love to have a bright, enthusiastic person
00:17:18.23 come to them and say, hey, can I help you out.
00:17:22.02 So, definitely spend some time thinking creatively around what you might be able to do at
00:17:27.23 your own institution that gets you sort of the career exploration, career work,
00:17:35.11 that you might be interested in doing.
00:17:37.16 So, here's just a list of a number of different places that you might be able to find an internship
00:17:43.21 on your campus.
00:17:45.21 For example, if you're interested in intellectual property, you might want to go to
00:17:50.01 the technology transfer office.
00:17:52.12 And again, as you go down the list, all of these different functions -- say, communications,
00:17:58.18 or business, or research development, writing big grants -- all of these things are
00:18:04.23 likely available at your university.
00:18:08.07 Another thing that you might want to consider are online trainings or projects.
00:18:11.09 So, there are a number of places online that have great courses that you can actually
00:18:17.24 build your skills, such as Coursera, or actually different university sites have their
00:18:21.24 own online courses.
00:18:23.09 These are great things to build your skills and look good on your resume.
00:18:28.03 Another thing you might want to consider are online projects, or these competitions.
00:18:32.01 There's a lot of these really cool competition sites out there where you get to actually
00:18:35.24 try real-world work, and might even be able to get a cash prize at the end of it.
00:18:42.04 Of course, that's not actually what you're doing it for.
00:18:44.06 You're doing it to build skills, gain some experience.
00:18:47.22 But... if you win the competition, that's great too.
00:18:51.14 And all of these things can go on your resume and are things that employers value as showing
00:18:56.06 your interest and your skills.
00:18:57.15 A third thing you might want to consider are job simulations.
00:19:00.15 So, there are the InterSECT job simulations that were specifically built for life science PhD's
00:19:06.27 to try out work in different career areas.
00:19:09.10 So, if you're interested in trying out some of these different types of work, just google
00:19:13.27 InterSECT and job simulations, and you'll be able to find lots of opportunities to
00:19:18.22 try out different skills.
00:19:21.09 So, I haven't yet addressed a potential problem.
00:19:26.18 And that is, what if you're a postdoc?
00:19:29.14 Often postdocs are treated more like employees than they are trainees, although technically
00:19:36.10 you are a trainee and, say, for example, according to NIH, you are supposed to be able to
00:19:42.12 do training and career development.
00:19:46.02 And right now, right here, I'm just showing the guidance from NIH that states specifically
00:19:53.07 that you're supposed to be able to do training and career development,
00:19:57.00 because the goal is for you to be able to go off and do
00:20:00.02 an independent career in research or research-related fields.
00:20:04.13 The problem is that may not be your reality.
00:20:09.09 So, talk to your postdoc office, and see what your rights and options are at your university.
00:20:16.20 It's possible that part-time work or project-based work is the best opportunity.
00:20:21.17 But if you remember from my previous talk, it turns out project-based and part-time work
00:20:27.24 can be incredibly beneficial.
00:20:30.17 Don't necessarily think that you're missing out if you can't do a full-time internship.
00:20:34.12 It might actually be exactly the thing that helps you clarify your career goals and
00:20:39.26 gets you to that next career step.
00:20:42.25 Definitely don't forget about job simulations, workshops, webinars, conference opportunities.
00:20:48.12 And also, if your campus is anything like UCSF, there might be a whole bunch of groups
00:20:54.26 on campus, or around campus, that might be useful for you to join.
00:20:59.09 So, around the UCSF campus there's the Healthcare Businesswomen's Association.
00:21:04.04 On campus, there's things like the Business Club, the podcasting club,
00:21:08.27 and many other opportunities for you to sort of get your hands
00:21:14.15 a little wet and dirty in terms of different career areas.
00:21:19.00 Alright.
00:21:21.03 If you're an international scholar, this is difficult.
00:21:24.10 You are on visas.
00:21:25.17 Those visas have very specific rules.
00:21:28.25 At the end of the day, no matter what I say or anyone says, you need to do whatever
00:21:35.14 your international scholars office tells you.
00:21:38.01 So, make friends with them.
00:21:39.27 Make sure you talk to them about anything you're considering about internships if you're
00:21:44.08 a grad student or a postdoc.
00:21:46.13 They will understand the rules, and they will help you understand the rules.
00:21:51.22 Just to be clear, we have actually sent international grad students on internships.
00:21:56.13 It is possible.
00:21:59.00 But your visas are just typically fairly restrictive, so it can be difficult.
00:22:03.20 It might be that project-based work or part-time work, as long as it works on your visa,
00:22:09.17 might be the best way for you to gain that sort of hands-on experiential learning.
00:22:17.05 Okay.
00:22:18.13 So, I've just spent a bunch of time talking about how to find an internship.
00:22:23.24 Now, maybe, you've actually applied to some internships, and they've called you back,
00:22:29.13 and they actually want to interview you.
00:22:31.24 Congratulations.
00:22:32.24 That's fantastic.
00:22:34.03 But let's prepare.
00:22:36.00 So, an interview for an internship is going to feel fairly similar to any interview
00:22:43.06 you're going to do for a job.
00:22:45.26 They are typically going to be shorter, not as intense.
00:22:49.14 But they typically do sort of have a... a sort of multi-interview format in the sense
00:22:55.06 that there's likely to be a screening call at the beginning, and then there's... if it's
00:22:59.17 a full-time internship where you're going to go to the site, there might also be sort
00:23:03.09 of an on-site, where you get to meet some people and have a bit more interviewing.
00:23:08.26 You're not likely to have to put together a presentation or any of the sort of
00:23:14.13 more intense formal things that you might do for a full-time position.
00:23:18.09 But you do want to prepare.
00:23:20.15 First and foremost, you want to be able to introduce yourself well.
00:23:24.11 So, I'm calling this an elevator pitch, and what this just means is you have
00:23:28.12 a couple of sentences prepared that describe who you are and what you're working on so that
00:23:33.20 you know how to smoothly answer that question when you're first asked, so, tell me about yourself.
00:23:40.19 Also, you want to be able to describe why you're interested in this internship,
00:23:46.02 and especially how it might affect your career.
00:23:49.05 So, taking on interns is actually a lot of work.
00:23:52.09 You're typically only there for a short amount of time, you need a lot of mentoring,
00:23:57.17 you don't necessarily have the skills yet; you're building the skills.
00:24:01.10 So it's fairly intensive from an... from an employer's point of view.
00:24:06.01 And so they are gonna want to know that this is an opportunity that you value and that
00:24:11.07 you think is actually gonna be useful to you on your career.
00:24:14.20 So, they're going to be looking for you to tell them that that's true for you and
00:24:20.11 how important this is.
00:24:22.25 You also do need to be able to describe what experience you have that is relevant to the internship.
00:24:29.22 Don't worry.
00:24:30.22 They understand you're trainees.
00:24:31.22 They're not gonna expect 10 years of experience in something.
00:24:35.10 But they do want to understand how what you have to offer is appropriate to the internship opportunity.
00:24:42.18 Definitely make sure to have your own questions ready.
00:24:45.05 There's... it's incredibly awkward to have a...
00:24:49.24 I've been on the interviewing side and asked a candidate, do you have any questions?,
00:24:57.02 and then had the candidate say no.
00:24:59.28 You wonder is... is the candidate really interested?
00:25:02.24 Are they not thoughtful?
00:25:05.07 Just have some questions ready to show the employer that you are really invested
00:25:10.10 in this opportunity and you've given it some thought.
00:25:14.00 And I know this doesn't actually sound fun to do, but it will be incredibly helpful.
00:25:18.02 Practice with your friends and family.
00:25:20.02 Yes, it's gonna feel totally awkward, but it's gonna make the actual interview
00:25:24.10 feel far less awkward.
00:25:25.12 So, I really do recommend practicing.
00:25:29.05 And here I just have a link to a toolkit on Naturejobs around interviews that might be
00:25:35.24 helpful as you're trying to prepare.
00:25:40.10 Okay.
00:25:41.05 So, now you've hopefully gotten through the interview stage, and you are trying to get
00:25:47.08 to your internship.
00:25:48.13 There's probably, however, gonna be a number of things that you're gonna have to
00:25:53.01 check off your list before that happens.
00:25:55.12 You're gonna need to cross your t's, dot your i's.
00:26:01.17 And probably a big one, if you're still in training, is going to be talking to your PI.
00:26:07.16 So, there is no standard time when you have to talk to your PI about your internship opportunities
00:26:15.21 or interests.
00:26:18.10 I've seen students do it successfully at many different times.
00:26:21.11 They can do it at the career exploration stage, or when they're searching for internships.
00:26:28.16 It does tend to happen, however, that I see students tell their PI's about it, actually,
00:26:34.24 when they've gotten an internship offer.
00:26:37.24 So, that's fairly common.
00:26:40.05 But, again, do what's right for your situation.
00:26:42.00 The only thing you can't do is accept an internship without talking to your PI.
00:26:48.15 That is a definite no-no and will not likely go well.
00:26:51.28 But before you accept an internship, there's a number of different times when you can
00:26:56.12 talk to your PI about it.
00:26:59.03 And even if you anticipate that that conversation is going to go well, or, especially,
00:27:03.19 if you anticipate that that's going to be a difficult conversation,
00:27:07.13 I suggest that you plan extensively for this conversation.
00:27:12.10 Because this is something that you want your PI to say yes to.
00:27:16.26 So, first and foremost, take some time, sit down, and think about what you're gonna
00:27:23.10 need to get done before you can go on that internship.
00:27:26.15 What's the research?
00:27:27.17 What's the plan?
00:27:28.17 How are you gonna schedule it all out?
00:27:30.02 How are you gonna get it done?
00:27:31.09 Draw up a plan, and then run it by some of your respective colleagues:
00:27:35.25 other people in the lab, some of your friends.
00:27:38.11 Make sure to reality check what it is that you are saying that you're gonna get done.
00:27:43.18 You don't want your PI to think that you're completely off-scale and you don't know
00:27:48.27 what you're doing.
00:27:51.08 Be prepared to tell your PI why it is you want to do this internship.
00:27:56.08 They're going to need to hear it, and they're gonna want to talk to you about it.
00:28:01.03 They definitely don't want to hear that you're running away from the lab or... or you hate
00:28:07.16 grad school.
00:28:08.16 Like, that's... that's not what the internship is about.
00:28:10.21 But you need to calm their fears, potentially, about that.
00:28:13.26 So, make sure to identify for them why you're excited about this internship and how it will
00:28:20.00 help your career.
00:28:21.23 I do recommend that you spend some time actually scripting out what you're gonna say,
00:28:27.01 or at least taking some notes, and then doing some practice conversations with your friends or family.
00:28:33.04 Again, it's likely to feel a bit awkward.
00:28:35.22 But it will definitely make the actual conversation go a lot smoother.
00:28:40.01 So, when you're ready to have the conversation... definitely set up an appointment.
00:28:46.07 Do not hijack your PI while they're walking through the lab.
00:28:50.16 Even the most supportive PI will probably find that a bit jarring, and the conversation
00:28:56.01 may not go well.
00:28:57.04 So, set up an appointment so they have some time and space to hear what you have to say.
00:29:04.07 Definitely be concrete about what you want.
00:29:06.03 You don't want to give the impression to your PI that you're actually uncertain about doing this.
00:29:12.19 If you... if they think you're uncertain, they're not gonna be certain about
00:29:16.14 letting you go and do this opportunity.
00:29:18.15 Focus on how it is useful and good for you.
00:29:22.07 This is not a rejection of your PI.
00:29:24.09 This is about what you need and you want for your future career.
00:29:29.24 Be prepared that this is actually likely going to be the first of a number of conversations
00:29:35.20 about this internship.
00:29:36.21 Your PI is likely gonna need some time to sit and think.
00:29:40.21 They're gonna wanna evaluate the plan that you've presented for them.
00:29:44.17 And then they're gonna wanna come back and talk to you about it.
00:29:47.03 So, just be prepared that it's not likely that it's just going to be one conversation.
00:29:55.05 But hopefully, that conversation ends up with you being able to go on your exciting internship.
00:30:01.00 But, just make sure that as you're on your way out the door to your internship that
00:30:07.00 you actually have done all of the things that you need to do at your campus.
00:30:10.26 Do you need to take a leave of absence if you're an enrolled grad student for you
00:30:14.21 to be able to go do this internship?
00:30:16.23 Do you know what happens to your health insurance when you're on this internship?
00:30:20.21 Losing health insurance is a big deal.
00:30:23.18 Make sure that you know that you still have health insurance, or you know what
00:30:26.20 you're gonna do.
00:30:28.18 Do you need sign-off from other people in your program or on your campus?
00:30:32.13 Like, does your program director need to okay this?
00:30:35.14 Does the grad dean need to okay this?
00:30:37.27 Just make sure you know all of the things that you need to do before you walk
00:30:42.12 out the door so that you can smoothly leave and smoothly come back.
00:30:46.00 And your program is likely... like, if you have a program coordinator, they're likely
00:30:49.23 to be the best people to help you figure that out.
00:30:53.12 So, now you're on your internship -- congratulations.
00:30:57.17 That's going to be very exciting and a lot of fun.
00:31:01.10 And I just want to talk a little bit about how to get the most out of your internship.
00:31:07.00 So, at the core of all of this, you want to listen and learn and experience.
00:31:13.10 So, just soak up as much as you can about the culture, the experience, the work,
00:31:18.01 so that you're gonna be able to understand if this is the right career for you.
00:31:23.08 You're also never gonna be in this situation again, at least not for a while,
00:31:28.26 if you're doing a three-month internship and then you're going back to something else.
00:31:32.11 So, you have access to all of these amazing professionals.
00:31:36.24 Do as many informational interviews as you possibly can.
00:31:40.24 They're all gonna be, typically, helpful and excited to help you as an intern at their company.
00:31:47.25 Definitely clarify with your manager what your... what the expectations are for
00:31:53.06 you and your work.
00:31:54.28 You really want to get that right, and these are people who might be recommenders for you later.
00:32:00.27 So, definitely try to meet or beat their expectations so that this is a positive experience overall,
00:32:07.13 and actually you... you derive bene... benefit from it for many years.
00:32:12.01 If you have questions about your responsibilities, talk to your boss.
00:32:17.11 If you have questions about the culture or the norms of the place that you're at,
00:32:22.07 talk to your colleagues.
00:32:25.02 And no matter what, be open and accepting to get as much feedback as possible.
00:32:30.01 You want to build your skills.
00:32:31.20 You want to learn.
00:32:32.28 And that typically means getting feedback.
00:32:36.14 It is very common on internships that you might have to sign a non-disclosure agreement
00:32:43.22 or a confidentiality agreement.
00:32:47.05 it's pretty standard.
00:32:49.06 Don't be surprised if you're asked.
00:32:50.25 Do read it.
00:32:53.17 Sometimes these have boilerplate language that might not really be appropriate for you
00:32:57.10 in your situation.
00:32:58.26 So definitely make sure that there's nothing weird in there.
00:33:01.26 Often, we found the lawyers are incredibly helpful and happy to adjust language if there's
00:33:06.24 something strange in there.
00:33:08.04 So, ask questions, but don't be surprised if someone asks you to sign an NDA or a CDA.
00:33:14.02 So, hopefully I've given you enough information that you can figure out if an internship is
00:33:18.11 right for you as you work on your own career exploration in determining your future career.
00:33:24.07 Good luck to you on all of your career exploration.
00:33:26.18 Thank you.

Videos in this Talk
  • Part 1: Internships for Graduate Students and Postdocs: Confident Career Decision-Making Through Internships
    Part 1: Internships for Graduate Students and Postdocs: Confident Career Decision-Making Through Internships
    Audience:
    • Researcher
    • Educators of Adv. Undergrad / Grad
  • Part 2: Internships for Graduate Students and Postdocs: Finding and Going on an Internship
    Part 2: Internships for Graduate Students and Postdocs: Finding and Going on an Internship
    Audience:
    • Researcher
    • Educators of Adv. Undergrad / Grad
Speaker: Alexandra Schnoes
Total Duration: 0:48:24
Recorded: March 2018
All Talks in Career Exploration

Talk Overview

There are many career options open to PhD scientists, however it can be difficult to determine which career is right for you. In a series of talks, Dr. Alexandra Schnoes describes how internships for graduate students and postdocs might be a good way to explore careers and help make an informed career decision. She discusses the benefits of internships and how a graduate student or postdoc might go on one. She covers the basics of finding and applying for internships. She also talks about the process of talking to your advisor about going on an internship, and how to get the most out of your internship experience when you are on it.

Speaker Bio

Alexandra Schnoes

Alexandra brings online career and professional development training to scientists. Prior to joining iBiology in 2016, Alexandra was the founding Program Manager of the UCSF Graduate Student Internships for Career Exploration (GSICE) program, which provides career path education, career planning, career counseling, and internship opportunities to PhD students. She is passionate about biomedical workforce issues,… Continue Reading

Playlist: Non-Research Careers

Related Resources

Internship Experiences Contribute to Confident Career Decision Making for Doctoral Students in the Life Sciences.–CBE Life Sci Educ. 2018 Spring;17(1)

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